Archive for August 16th, 2008

An Online Interview with the Voice of eBay Radio Jim “Griff” Griffith

Posted on August 16, 2008. Filed under: eBay | Tags: eBay, eBay Radio, Griff, Jim Griffith |

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Recently, I was reading an eBay community board where “Griff”, Jim Griffith, was on the receiving end of some pretty harsh words from angry eBay sellers.  I have often disagreed with comments Griff has made online and on his radio shows but I have never doubted his sincerity when it comes to helping the eBay community.  Personally, I have never met Griff and I contacted Griff only once by email  asking for assistance as an eBay seller.  I had an issue that had gone unresolved for more than 6 months.  As a last resort effort, I emailed Griff.  Two weeks after I contacted Griff, the matter was resolved in its entirety.  I never received a response back from Griff acknowledging receipt of the original email or telling me that the situation had been corrected but having the matter taken care of was more than enough for me.
 
After reading the Seller Central Board and some of Griff’s comments, I decided to send an email to Griff directly to ask him questions and this is what he had to say:
 
1. Griff, I have heard you say many times that eBay is your life and I think that is a pretty accurate statement.  You are currently serving as Dean of eBay Education, roving ambassador, eBay spokesperson, and you are the host of eBay Radio.  As the “Voice of eBay”, you are a person that the community applauds when they feel great about eBay and you are also a person they love to hate when they are angry with eBay.  How are you dealing with the change in public sentiment about eBay and how is it affecting you personally?  
 
Griff’s Response: 
First, let me thank you for providing me the opportunity to answer questions.

There has always been, shall we say, heated discussion on the topic of “eBay,” both on and off the site. It is not surprising. When people believe passionately about something, they tend to argue just as passionately for or against that something; in this case, the changes we are making to the marketplace. Most are arguing “against “so the level of angst is also not surprising. This is a challenging year for eBay sellers. On top of their regular tasks and challenges of running their businesses in this unsure economy, we are requiring sellers to adapt to momentous changes. Stress levels are understandably high among many sellers and many of them are fearful and angry at eBay for bringing this fear and uncertainty into their lives. If taking it out on me helps alleviate even a small amount of that fear and stress and anger, have at it, I am at your service, (especially if it means you won’t take it out on your customers!) By the way,  I never take attacks on myself personally. It’s part of the job of being “out there.”  Besides, it’s not about me. It’s about sellers and their future success. I focus on them. The rest rolls away.

Some have said I am only supporting these changes because my job “requires” I do. Let me be perfectly clear. I have been with eBay since 1996. We went public in 1998. I don’t need the job (in fact, in the last few years, I have had many opportunities for a lot more compensation). I am still here because I am passionate about this company.  I believe in the values for which it is has always stood and for which it continues to stand. I admire and respect the talented and dedicated people with whom I work and from whom I continue to learn.  I love the big, diverse community it represents and serves. So yes, it hurts me a bit when someone refers to eBay negatively. But said statements only reaffirm my commitment to changing that perspective in any way I can. It’s what anyone in similar circumstances would do if they believe strongly in something.
 
 
2. You have expressed strong support for the recent eBay changes.  You have also made the point that while each eBay community member has their own personal perspective from which they can evaluate these changes, you believe you have a more accurate view of the overall eBay situation and why these changes are so necessary.  So, my question is this: Prior to 2008, what were the biggest challenges facing the good eBay sellers (the ones eBay wants to keep) and what will the recent eBay changes end up doing to make the eBay marketplace a better venue for the sellers that eBay hopes will stay and continue to offer a great variety of products and good customer service?
 
Griff’s Response:
Back in January when I learned about the first round of changes, I decided, on my own, to step out in full support of them. No one here at eBay asked me to do so. I supported them then and I continue to support them now because I believe they are absolutely necessary if eBay’s marketplace is going to succeed and recapture its initial growth and vitality. Although I knew my public stance would make a lot of people unhappy, I believe that as a long time eBay member and employee, it was my duty to sellers to step out in full public support of the changes, to provide clarification about the necessity of the changes and to offer assistance to any and all sellers needing help with adapting to the new environment on eBay.

Prior to the start of 2008, the biggest challenge facing all eBay sellers was a not-so-obvious fact: good loyal buyers were leaving eBay at an alarming rate and the rate of new buyers coming to eBay was decreasing. When the numbers were shared internally, well, let’s just say it gave everyone a bit of a shock. The rates of decline for both types of buyers was unsustainable. A marketplace without buyers means a marketplace without sellers. A marketplace without sellers ceases to exist.

We asked those buyers who had stopped shopping on eBay why they did so (in an extensive survey) and the information was as shocking as the numbers; One top of a list of factors (bad searching experience, excessive shipping costs, etc) sat the number one reason: receiving a negative feedback from a seller (after paying for an item, receiving less-than-satisfactory service and leaving an appropriate rating for them.) Thus the change to how feedback and ratings now work.

Since then, we’ve introduced a completely new Finding mechanism for buyers to locate items of interest quickly and accurately, a better trust system with ratings and feedback, lower shipping costs (through incentives to sellers) and, based on what buyers told us they now demand from an online marketplace, a better buyer-focused experience. It’s still too early in the game to expect dramatic results but the numbers with regards to both new and returning buyers so far, are more than encouraging.  

I should make something clear: we don’t blame sellers for the decline in buyer numbers. We blame ourselves. As custodians of the entire marketplace, we should have been more proactive, seen the trends earlier and instituted these changes several years ago but quite frankly, all of us (eBay and sellers) were still enjoying the heady atmosphere of the initial ten years of eBay unprecedented success; when buyers were so excited and fascinated with the whole idea of the internet and online shopping, that they were somewhat forgiving of lapses in the golden rule of commerce: the customer is always right.  

No more.

Buyers are now demanding a return to the old rule and they are shopping where the rule applies and abandoning markets where the rule is not in force. They also have more choices than they did just a few years ago. However, I am more optimistic about eBay than I have ever been. Specifically, I know that these changes will result in a better marketplace for all good sellers, starting now and growing more so as we move through this coming Holiday season and into 2009.

Still, my belief in this certainty and a $1.50 will buy you a small latte. What I think or believe doesn’t matter. My explanations might assure some sellers, but they definitely won’t assure or appease all or even most of those sellers who are unhappy with eBay’s strategic moves.  This is not surprising. The proof -which is still forthcoming for many sellers – is or will be in higher sales volumes, lower rates of unnecessary, time-consuming issues like non-paying buyers and better tools and features that will make a seller’s daily tasks easier and more efficient. That is our goal. Bring more buyers to eBay sellers so they can realize higher rates of successful selling and eliminate as many inefficiencies as possible (including the UPI problem. We are working on some intriguing ideas. Stay tuned.)
 
 
3. I consider myself to be a “good” seller who has approximately 35,000 feedback for 3 selling I.D.s with feedback percentages ranging from 99.7% to 99.9% with neutrals calculated in (99.8% to 100% without neturals) and I am personally more unhappy with eBay this year than I have been in all the other years combined.  There are a great many changes I disagree with and while I can understand why some changes were necessary, I think eBay completely failed in the actual process of implementing those changes.  
It makes perfect sense to me that underperforming sellers would not like these new eBay changes.  But in your opinion, given that you have interaction with a number of different sellers, why do you think so many “good” sellers continue to be upset by the recent changes?
 
Griff’s Response: 
An underperforming seller (and I mean a chronic underperforming seller) is not going to last on eBay and wouldn’t have lasted even if nothing had changed. Underperforming sellers know this so we aren’t really hearing much from them. We have been showing the worst of this group the door since early last year.  But many good sellers (which are the vast majority I am proud to say) are upset and they are voicing their anger and concern because these changes pretty scary for many long time sellers on eBay. I know it’s a cliché at this point but change is never easy. It’s doubly difficult when a person’s business is on the line. Sellers who sell full time on eBay (or even many part time sellers) spend long hours listing, managing listings, responding to customers, dealing with customer issues, shipping issues, payment issues… The list is endless. Anyone thinking of a full time business selling online or on eBay needs to understand it is not a sit-at-home-and-make-money business. As a seller yourself, you know that it takes incredible amounts of effort  and dedication to run your own business. This isn’t about changing an interface or web form. It’s about money, specifically, their income, their very survival in what are increasingly, difficult economic times. Quite frankly, I would be more distressed by a seller who wasn’t at least a little concerned about adapting to change. So I am not at all surprised or indifferent to the angst these changes are causing quite a few sellers. For many, it is very frightening since change also breeds uncertainty. This hurts. I know this. I wish it didn’t. That’s why I extend the offer of whatever assistance and guidance I can provide to any seller who needs it, especially during these times of dramatic change.
 
 “… I think eBay completely failed in the actual process of implementing those changes….”  Although we didn’t “fail completely”  (else we wouldn’t be seeing the uptick in buyers returning to eBay) I concede that , the implementation, messaging and follow up regarding the changes has been less than stellar. Mistakes were definitely made and for those, I apologize on behalf of my colleagues at eBay. The urgency of getting the gist of the changes in place as fast as possible came with this risk. It is a learning process to be sure. However, as a consequence, you will see a marked improvement in the way any future site, feature or policy changes are announced and implemented.
 
4. You recently made the comment on eBay Seller Central: “I’ve reviewed thousands of disputes between buyers and sellers for the last 12 years and in every single case, the “rude” behavior on the part of a buyer was always precipitated by unprofessional conduct on the part of the seller who assumed intent on the basis of an initial buyer email and responded accordingly.”  That statement has drawn the ire of many sellers.  Would you care to elaborate so that we can better understand your comment?
 
Although I stand by the statement, I should have added more detail in the post and I may still do so (thank you for the opportunity to do so here).  I just provided a more in-depth elaboration in an email to a member so I hope you won’t mind, if in the interest of time, I copy and paste and abridged version of that answer here:

In my 12 years with eBay (I was eBay’s first customer support rep starting in November of 1996), I have answered well over 100,000 customer emails. I have witnessed (and often moderated) easily tens of thousands of disputes between buyers and sellers.

Sadly, in every single case (and I am not being hyperbolic here) where there was a dispute between a good seller and a good buyer (defined as a buyer who either paid or who was intending to pay and was not attempting to defraud or extort the seller), the reason for the dispute was always due to misunderstanding and confusion caused by fear and suspicion on the part of seller or buyer. Said fear and suspicion then escalated between both parties into a full fledged dispute (with resulting non payment, negative feedback and sometimes, a long drawn out email and public forum battle between the two parties.)

(I am not counting the incredibly small number of dispute cases where the buyer (or for that matter, the seller) was clearly attempting to defraud or extort the other party. I am talking about when things go bad between otherwise good people. )

In the off line world where people can meet and exchange money and goods face to face, the incidence of a dispute (buyer and seller start bickering, then hollering, then screaming, maybe fists start flailing…) is virtually nil. Human beings, when engaged in face to face transactions can take cues from the other person’s tone of voice, facial expressions, body language, etc and react accordingly. No one who is in the business of selling stuff to buyers in the offline world (at least no one who realizes or wishes to realize some modicum of success) will ever adopt a confrontational posture with new customers. Add to this, the additional fact that the buyer is able to actually handle and inspect the seller’s merchandise before committing to a purchase, and you have the basis for at the very, least, good trust-based customer/seller relationship and it is hoped, a solid, growing business.

In the online world, the buyer and seller have none of the above upon which to build trust. All they have is their words, primarily, typed into a text box or email online. Add to this diminished arsenal of trust building tools the inability for the buyer to hold and inspect the item “in hand,” the buyer’s fear-based uncertainty of the seller’s actual intentions (every buyer has heard horror stories about buying online and specifically, buying on eBay), the buyer’s fear that they will not will receive the proffered item in such a manner that guarantees it arrives safely, if at all, and the fact that many sellers are suspicious of every new seller’s intention to pay and what you have is the not the foundation for good trust-based relationships.

Sometimes, I have been able to assist in getting both parties to understand the why and how of their dispute and reach at the least, a détente. On rare occasions, the two parties are able to meet face-to-face and share the peace pipe (which is much easier to do when to warring people are standing face to face with each other).  When a face-to-face is not possible, a phone call can do the trick. But when all the two parties have are the written word, and since most people are not adept at the written word, especially when fearful or angry, the result is an unfortunate, avoidable and often ugly, dispute.

How do these unfortunate disputes usually begin? Although each has its own story, they all start out something like this (or a variation thereof):

Seller (who may have experienced a few disputes prior and who has allowed these past experiences to color the tone and content of their item description and especially, their Terms of Service) receives an email from a buyer requesting either information or services, sometimes beyond what the seller has provided in the listing. Or the buyer sends an email after the sale. The syntax and construction of the buyer’s email could lead the seller to believe the buyer is, well to be kind, not quite literate or maybe even a 7 year old child.

Seller, considering his or her past experiences takes umbrage and responds in a tone that is maybe a tad less than professional or polite (or maybe more than a tad).

Now the stage has been set for escalating suspicions, words and alas, actions. Sometimes, the potential dispute dies then and there. Maybe the buyer either decides to move on or, it he or she does purchase, does so with some reluctance but really really really wants or needs this particular item and so follows through (but, in lieu of any redeeming words or actions on the part of the seller, leaves appropriate ratings or feedback).

But sometimes, especially when the exchange begins after the sale, the dispute ignites and grows with all the possible unfortunate and completely avoidable consequences.

I say “avoidable” because they are. In fact, there are thousands and thousands of full and part time sellers – both low and high volume – who have few if any of the tell tale signs of customer disputes,( the signs being negative or neutral feedback, lower than average DSRs or actual records on file at eBay.) What sets these seller’s apart from those sellers who do show some history of customer disputes? Their words and their acknowledgement that in the realm of commerce (including ecommerce) of the golden rule of commerce: the customer is always right. The rule, by extension, means the following for any seller who wants to succeed on eBay:

It is a seller’s responsibility to prevent customer disputes. When a dispute arises anyway, it is the seller’s responsibility to resolve it as quickly and as reasonably as possible. Remember, a buyer is not required to possess a certain level of literary skills, be polite (although it is nice when they are and the vast majority of buyers indeed, are civil and polite) or rate a seller on the basis of what the seller believes the ratings should be. A buyer is required to pay for their purchase (and of course, to not attempt to defraud or extort a seller).

Sellers who believe that buyers have obligations beyond paying for the item (and not attempting fraud or extortion), are of course, free to hold that belief and to conduct their business accordingly. But my 12 years on eBay (along with prior 25 years in commerce) have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, that said sellers can expect more customer disputes, lower ratings and feedback and ultimately, less success, on eBay or in any other marketplace. Don’t just take my word for it. Ask any successful big or small business, off or on line. They will tell you the same:

Like it or not, the rule is true: the customer IS always right (even when they are wrong). Break the rule and you may “win”  a dispute or two, but you will eventually loose the “war” (having a successful business) I hate having to use combat terms for commerce – commerce is never combat – but they do seem to work for this situation.

So. How does a seller avoid customer disputes?

1. Online, you are defined by your words and actions. Maintain a professional, polite, and friendly demeanor in all correspondence and presentation including item descriptions, statement of policies and of course, email.
2. Never respond in kind to an impolite or rude email from a buyer. Focus on the question or issue, respond to the question or issue with a polite, friendly and professional response. Treat any rude remarks or accusations as though they didn’t exist, or where ever uttered.
3. Grant any and all reasonable requests.
4. If a request cannot be granted, decline it in a professional manner.
5. If a particular customer proves to be impossible-to-please…smile, thank the customer for their business and then, “Next!” (move on to the next customer)
6. Don’t let an impossible customer stay with you indefinitely (in your mind). Doing so will hurt your business outlook and they way you view all customers, I absolutely guarantee it.
7. Finally, don’t hold your next customer responsible for a prior impossible-to-please customer’s behavior. Every transaction is a new one and a chance to start afresh. “Next!”

By the way, these guidelines don’t just apply to commerce. The hold for anyone wanting to engage productively in any type of online communication, including public chat forums.
 
 
5. Many times you have told sellers that the overall good of the community must take precedence over the needs of individual sellers.  While I can understand that approach is one that eBay believes must be undertaken in order to make eBay successful, I think it is illogical to ask eBay sellers to make further sacrifices for the “good of the community”.  Selling on eBay is not a “team sport” and asking individual members to think of the needs of the “team” first, before their own needs, certainly won’t engender any loyalty among eBay sellers.  Specifically, buyers can be found guilty of feedback extortion but the negative feedback left for the seller will not be removed and buyers who do not pay for an item can still leave undeserved negative feedback as long as they simply state that they sent payment in the mail even if the seller accepts PayPal Only.   My question to you, then, is how can eBay possibly ask sellers to accept receiving undeserved negative feedback, which ruins their reputation, simply because it creates more “trust” in the system?

Griff’s Response: 
In any rating system, the seller being rated will, on occasion, receive a rating that at the seller will believe firmly is “undeserved.”  With feedback, this has always been possible and it will continue to be possible.  This is true of all rating systems which, by their very nature, allow the buyer or service recipient, to rate the seller or service provider based on the buyer’s and only the buyer’s experience (and not the experience the seller believes they provided the buyer. A seller does use a buyer to rate themselves by proxy.). A good seller has nothing to worry  about. The receipt of a rare negative feedback will not ruin a that seller’s reputation and by exercising good customer communications before, during and after a sale, a seller drastically reduces the likelihood of the undeserved negative.

However, when it comes to the biggest bone of contention with eBay sellers – buyers who don’t pay and yet leave negative feedback, there is redress (redress that did not exist before May 19t). So, I have to take issue with two of your statements before answering your question:

“Specifically, buyers can be found guilty of feedback extortion but the negative feedback left for the seller will not be removed and buyers who do not pay for an item can still leave undeserved negative feedback as long as they simply state that they sent payment in the mail even if the seller accepts PayPal Only. ”

Both statements are not accurate*. Feedback left by a buyer who is found “guilty” (I have to qualify legal terms. Ebay is not a court of law) of extortion is removed. If the “guilty” buyer has not left feedback, they are blocked from doing so. Regarding non paying buyers; in fact, for both UPI (Unpaid Item) cases quoted on the Seller Central thread, the feedback was  removed. A buyer who responds to a UPI dispute that they “Sent payment” for an item where the seller has stated PayPal only, will result in eventual removal of any left negative feedback for the seller by the buyer, or, if the buyer hasn’t left negative feedback yet, the blocking of that buyer’s ability to do so.

A important fact: Removal of negative feedback for non paying buyers without legitimate reason for non payment and removal of negative feedback left as an attempt to extort a seller – did not exist as on option before May 19th.  Since this is a brand new area of policy on eBay, we don’t always get it right the first time a particular situation arises. But we are learning and adapting the UPI process to provide greater, not lesser, protection for sellers. (This is why I take special interest in these UPI negative feedback cases, especially ones that might not have ruled in favor of a seller initially.)
 
To answer your question (finally!)

A system is open to manipulation by widespread misuse of a negative rating withdrawal mechanism or allows sellers to post retaliatory ratings on buyers has been clearly proven to be not trusted by buyers.  When buyers mistrust a rating system, they mistrust the marketplace it represents and tend not to spend money in that marketplace. This lack of spending is detrimental to the benefit of all sellers.

A rating or feedback system that provides as accurate an indication as possible of any one seller’s commitment to customer service, past history on eBay, and level of professionalism (based primarily on that seller’s responses to any neutral or negative feedback they might have received) without a “gaming” factor of either easy withdrawal of negative comments or the threat of retaliatory feedback is a rating system that benefits all eBay sellers by instilling buyer confidence and trust in the entire marketplace the rating system represents. When buyers trust a marketplace, the are more likely to spend in that marketplace. Spending buyers result in solid benefits (sales) for sellers.
 

6. What positive words of encouragement do you have for good eBay sellers who are struggling to find a reason to continue selling on eBay during this tough transitional period?

Griff’s Response: 
First, I fully acknowledge this is not an easy time for many sellers, given the list of changes eBay is putting in place this year, the increased competitive nature of ecommerce, the everyday tasks of running a business and the current economic climate. I cannot promise immediate relief but I am absolutely certain that those sellers who stay focused on their businesses and most importantly, their customers by adapt their selling strategies as necessary, will reap the rewards; more confident, good buyers, more sales and a more stable and exciting marketplace in which to sell and buy (most of our sellers are also buyers by the way). Even as we change the marketplace, eBay still offers the best value proposition for sellers: access to the more buyers around the world for lower cost than any other comparable marketplace.

I would also say this: We know that your participation in our marketplace is absolutely crucial to its success. Without you, there are no goods to promote and please buyers. We are not implementing these changes to only delight buyers. We want to delight you as well by helping you with what really matters to your business: more buyers, more sales, less stress and inefficiency. Your success is our goal. Your success is our success. The two are inseparable.
 
 
7. It is overwhelming for veteran eBay sellers to keep up with all the recent changes and not run afoul of the new rules and listing seems to get more technically difficult all the time.  If it is challenging for veteran sellers to continue selling on eBay, it must be especially hard for the new eBay seller.  What advice do you have for new eBay sellers?  
 
Griff’s Response: 
Actually, it is somewhat easier for new sellers to adapt as they don’t have the old system to use as a “then and now” comparison point. But I don’t want to minimize the challenges for a new seller. Running a business on eBay is not a get rich quick scheme and it takes a lot of work and dedication. My advice has been and remains: Start slow, start small, plan, and observe. Don’t be afraid to test new listing strategies. Ask other sellers for advice and opinions. (eBay sellers are extremely generous in this area). Don’t become wedded to specific ways of doing business (yes, that includes only selling in more than one marketplace if necessary), stay focused on the customer (they pay your bills! And they are always right). Don’t sweat the small stuff. Expect the occasional issue or mini crisis. Keep your eye on the big picture. Look for business trends and stay ahead of them. People really are basically good. Enjoy what you do.
 
 
8. On a personal note, what is it that you enjoy doing with your time when you are not on the computer helping out with eBay?

Griff’s Response: 
It’s a Saturday right now. The sun is shining. The temperature is perfect. I am -happily – sitting at a computer responding to your questions. In between searching and buying (I buy nearly every day on eBay) and  answering more customer email, I am set for the rest of the day. Maybe a trip out for dinner. Tomorrow is Sunday. I don’t have any plans beyond answering email and buying on eBay (I may try to list a few items).  Monday through Friday, I am in the office, answering email, attending meetings, preparing for the radio shows for the week, dealing with issues as they arise, plying my persuasion and influence internally on process and policy decisions, etc.

Next weekend, the same. The week after that, the same.

I do enjoy biking to and from work. It gives me some time to think about… (guess what I think about while biking…)

*Note: I stand by my statements.  I have first-hand knowledge that eBay will not remove negative feedback even when the buyer has been found in violation of the Feedback Extortion Policy.  Please see my blog post about Feedback Extortion for the actual email sent by eBay Trust & Safety which specifically states that the feedback will not be removed.

If you would like to learn more about the eBay Radio Shows hosted by Griff, where you can call in and ask your questions, please check out the URLs below:

eBay Radio with Griff

eBay Radio Ask Griff Show

eBay Radio PowerSeller Show with Griff

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